Is there a place in city business for personal agendas?

" Personal Agenda, I doubt, this should have happened long ago, Philip Cook only does what benefits himself, he does not in any way look out for the best interest of our community, I will stand behind our council 100% Tuesday night. "

" well i won't stand behind the council, i'll stand in front of them and tell them what idiots they are. this old game of lets allow everyone to apply even though we have made our choice already needs to come to an end. and yes indian fan they have personal agendas and they all try to push them on others. it's funny we can never elect someone to their position who doesn't vote a certain way due to race, or religion or just the good ole boy system. there isn't a single one of them looking out for every residents best interest. let's take our recent "cleanup" how come it was a partial day cleanup and how come it was only in one section of town? more trash got thrown right back out there.there are several areas of town in need of cleanup. why is it our beloved council members can't just be people and have to push things like trying to make other organizations have a person of their race on there board to be "politically correct" they can't respect the corporation already created by a group because it's all about them and getting themselves in the spotlight. I'm glad i din't vote for any of these idiots to be in the position they are. "

" machoman, I agree with you on the most part, however, having personal dealing with Mr.Cook, I 100% agree that he needs to go, along with a few others also, however, I think we need to think long and hard on who we elect..... "

" I agree with Vanessa that there is no place in city business for personal agendas. If this city expects to grow at Houston moves us 59, we must move past the good ole boys network and look at our for growth/expansion of our community. If we don't Houston will pass us by and Shepherd will be larger than Cleveland in a few years. Without a strong city government partnered with the school to do what is best for everyone, we will surely fail. This is just another test of whether we will move forward or stay stuck in the mud. If the handpicked candidate did not make the cut with the 3rd party, he should not have an interview and should be excluded from consideration. I hope all on that committee will discard that candidate immediately. "

" Too bad, really some good, smart individuals applied. Can't be worse than you had. Could be like Liberty, get someone unknown, out of towner and look at the mess they have and the turmoil in the Police Department. And yes - again they are going outside for third party again. If you have someone good that has not been a Chief, give him a try. Manager doesn't always make the right decision. I do believe that outside opinions are good. Cleveland needs to look for experience with Drugs and Gangs and someone with the plans to make good strong changes. Also, bring in someone that has some good strong followers with them. Integrity and determination goes a long way. All of the smaller cities are looking at new problems today. The race track will bring in a whole new problem too. Gambling, drugs and more. Hang in there and good luck. "

" Anyone remember the LAST "outside" police chief for Cleveland?
His name was Rick Foxworth. Boy, didn't that hire turn out well for all concerned?!?

The Texas Police Chiefs Association HAS an agenda! The agenda is to get one of THEIR people a job like chief in Cleveland to use as a stepping stone to a bigger police chief's job. None of their people have an inherent interest in what's good for Cleveland! Anyone who believes otherwise is either naive, a fool, or a politician.

The last choice brings up VANESA BRASHIER:
How arrogant to indicate whoever is "running a newspaper" is NOT a politico! Brashier CLEARLY has her own agenda but wants us to believe because she is editor of a newspaper it's somehow sacrosanct! What rubbish! If you're going to espouse an agenda as Brashier has, at least be honest enough to ADMIT it!
By the way Brashier , the Advocate is looking pretty poorly and the circulation is down per capita. Maybe you should work on an attempt to get the Advocate to look and read like a real newspaper. "

" Nothing wrong with "outside" people. I would bet most of you making negative remarks about the hiring of an outside person as Police Chief are probably not native to Cleveland, and are outsiders as well. The hiring of Ricky Foxworth as Chief of Police was more of a good old boy hire rather than the hiring of an unknown outsider, since Ricky was local. Maybe everyone would like to go back to the days of Fred Beshell, our most famous Constable (apologies to Constables DeSpain & Wheeler), who defined what a good old boy system was like? Cleveland even had a Chief of Police, Merle Brown, who rose from the ranks of dog catcher. I believe Mr. Brown was let go after he was involved in an unfortunate collision between his pistol butt and the head of a truck driver who Merle believed committed an infraction downtown. Merle was a local who had good intentions but questionable decision making processes, along with maybe an anger management issue. And, he didn't check for witnesses before applying said pistol to said head. Point is, let the people in charge pick the right person for the job to the best of their ability based on the information in front of them. That's why they were hired, or voted into office, to do. If the person hired for Chief turns out to be a good hire, it will be because he/she is a good person for the job, not because they are from Cleveland, Texas or Cleveland, Tennessee. If the hire turns out to be a bad choice, there will be plenty of opportunity for you boo-birds to criticize it later. And guess what? Everyone has an agenda. Just because someone else's agenda doesn't agree with your agenda doesn't mean they're at fault. You just need to agree to disagree, let them do their job, and get over it. I doubt if any of you even give a rat's behind who the Police Chief ends up being, as long as it doesn't affect you personally in a negative way. "

" I am not particurlarly fond of Mr. Cook. I wrote a letter to the council years ago complaining of his lack of professionalism and his hiring practices. It would be refreshing to see him go. From what I can remember when he first signed on he had grand plans for Cleveland. What happened? Downtown Cleveland has been cleaned up some, but I think the Chamber of Commerce has more to do with that than Mr. Cook. Re: the police chief position, I believe if someone in our community is qualified for the job we should consider them first before brining in an outsider. That just makes more sense. Hope the outcome at the council meeting is good. Kudos to those who want Mr. Cook gone. "

" "Outside people" means persons OUTSIDE the current police department.

Foxworth was NOT associated with the Cleveland Police Department, and while he may have been raised in the area, by the time he was hired as chief he hadn't been around for almost two decades. He was a longtime member of the Houston Police Department and brought in people with whom he had worked in that organization. That's when the things went to crap.
In pulling out the old racist boogieman Beshell, you are just trying to poison the discussion by playing a racist card. Beshell and his ways are LONG GONE! You may have noticed our recent long serving police chief was Black. He was also deeply committed to Cleveland, the surrounding communities, and its people. All would be hard pressed to fine a better man and law enforcement officer than was Cleveland Police Chief Ike Hines.
See, you can have BOTH! In the department there are persons already committed to this area, and its continued progress, with the ability to guide the department as it grows with our city. To say otherwise is a malicious insult to all the fine personnel currently serving our people.
By the way, in case you didn't know it, the County Sheriff came from this department. It's clear folks all over Liberty County must believe the Cleveland Police Department has produced fine law enforcement officers! So why don't you? "

" Is there a place for personal agendas? Apparently so. Look at all the game rooms, who owns them, the land they're on, and who rakes in the profits> Look at which people were connected to who, as well as who gets to profit from the bringing of the new truck stop (and who's friends' land it will sit on...)

Look at who is getting the $49 per month lease deal at the civic center, and which personal family members are involved....

Look at which churches, masquarade from their true identities: political machines- AND... who their candidates are and have been.

Do they want a police chief who will allow the arrest of these personal agenda people, and close the game rooms down? Not on your life. (not that anybody could get elected sheriff, who really PLANS to close them down, either. It's good campaign speech retoric; but nothing more than empty politician promises (to get votes), to be sure. )

Do they want a newspaper who will print the names of those gaming room insider/property owners (not that such a newspaper could ever exist long enough to get/keep subscribers)? Again, not a chance. Just because the news people are good people, doesn't mean that they don't understand full well, just exactly WHERE their bread is buttered!

Make no mistake: personal agenda people are totally against freedom of the press, as well as freedom of speech. Why? It EXPOSES them, as the scoundrels they ARE! Let's see them pass ordinances against such, while keeping the flag flying in front of the city hall (not that Katrina, Rita, Gustav, and Ike; give a rip about their puny, human ordinances- nor the scoundrels that made them.) HA! "

" Wow, this is a scarey feeling to know that your future children have so much to look up to. Your City Officials down each other throats, your Police Station employees are fighting like cats and dogs. Your Citizens scrambling for answers and never getting any. Your teachers getting busted for prostitution, People who are trying to help the children getting bashed for making a few mistakes. The newspaper reporters playing the enforcer of the city and claiming it just thier job. Maybe you should elect the Editor for one of these positions she seems to be as honest as the day is long, has every moral standarded covered, believes in bashing people without facts just for a story. I read your newspaper weekly, I always see people gatherd in numbers when it's a scandel. Were are they in the hundreds when it come to the goodness of their community. I see where you have comments by pastors and never do I see positive comments under that section, or what changes these people commenting on here can do to help make positive changes. I don't know this Mr. Cook and I'm sure he is not perfect and may be a criminal I don't know. What I do know is every event I have ever been to in Cleveland has been short handed and struggles to find good citizens to volunteer. You may have voted these people in to their City Council positions but it also takes you the citizens to get out and help. You like to complain but how many hours a week do you get out and help in your community. Do you exspect these 7 City Council people to do everything? Did someone say their was a clean up in just one section of the town? Did you ask why only in one part of town ? You said that there was more sections of your town that needed to be cleaned. My question is this, was you out there in any section helping to pick up trash? Have you been apart of The Cleveland clean up at all? I bet not. This is the kind of people who make me sick. They complain but do not participate. Cleveland needs group theraphy and fast. By the way I'm an outsider looking in. I only have family that lives in Cleveland. All I see is a big huge fighting ring with no winners. You better open all your bibles and start asking for forgiveness. The cures will not be on you but on your future leaders. Your children who are watching you squabble, fight, and pretending you care. Remember you reap what you sew. "

" Wow lots of sparks have came from this discussion. i would like to comment on the response from indian fan to my comments, i completely agree with your thoughts on mr. cook and others needing to leave. Personally i wish we could wipe out the entire council and replace them with a better set of persons who are looking out for the interest of the community. "

" One of our local automotive business managers spoke with two of Mr Cook's former cities. Both said he 'left their cities broke.' Oh, if we could be so lucky. Not. We're 12 million dollars in debt.

The item of his that smacks the loudest is the salary rhetoric. His salary had to be fixed to a 'comparable city of our size.' Wonder of wonder, he chose Friendswood, (not New Waverly) as the 'comparable city of our size.' Some similarity, huh? So, each year his salary grew tremendously. Last year, the raise was paid by gutting the dispatcher budget. This year, he tried to get rid of an assistant librarian, to pay for his next one.

Yes, we have the 'palaces' on 'castle avenue' (it has a moat!), formerly Peach street, that happened on his watch. We all will have a $10 monthly water bill increase (forever), to pay for it. We have the library expansion, the EMS barracks, and the water treatment plant remodel; all from his term here.

Additionally- during his tenure, we sport a wet vote, numerous bars, and beer/wine stores- added to our fair city. The rampant drug problem has increased to drug dealers literally everywhere, and.... we now have numerous illegal, cash payout, gaming establishments- all exempt from law enforcement.

Still, we have no enforcement of illegals, working the construction trades, on sites with city work permits. ICE has yet to receive a call from the city, to come help. Our local kids end up in Iraq: the only employer available for many of them. Military job prospects for the future are bleak, with the returning clintonian administration (remember the military cuts of the 90's, anyone?) Yet, there is no city initiated, youth job program.

Our city pool operates for a mere six or seven weeks per year, and the budget shortfall is staggering. Don't get me started on the budget shortfall on the city monument to poor planning and insider deals: the civic center. Likewise, I see 'distubed's name supra; but I'll leave out her family scandals of last summer, and the city connection. Ya'll know that group all too well.

Finally, our city manager has a second job, paid with city funds to run the soccer league (the only youth sports org, on the city payroll.)

No, I can't think of any reason that Mr Cook can't be considered a regular member of our 'city scoundrels.' Keep him, by all means- lest we violate the 'equal enforcement clause'! "

" I think that personal agendas are interwoven into all politics, even moreso in "small town America". It would be foolish to think that none of the elected politicians, and those appointed by elected politicians, have no personal agendas in mind.

What a citizenry needs to look at is the actions of those involved, & demand an accounting of their actions if they were not in line with the desires of the community.

My personal agenda is this:

The City spent how many millions of dollars on a Civic Center and landscaping? Is that how the citizens of Cleveland wanted their funds spent? With budgets in almost all city departments cut, does it not appear that there could have been a better use for those funds? Could the Police Department have used additional officers on the streets? Could we have used a duty crew for immediate response on our Fire Department? Could or Emergency Medical Services have used new equipment? Could our Public Works have used new equipment, or our streets with much-needed repairs?

Here's more of my personal agenda. Are our elected or appointed officials upholding the needs and desires of the citizens of Cleveland? Is the City Manager doing his job by adequately managing the operations and funds of the City, and allocating resources to ensure smooth operations? Is the City Council truely REPRESENTING their constituents, and if not, are their constituents holding them accountable and making it known to others?

The bottom line is simply the bottom line.

In regards to the Civic Center and its landscaping, I think there were other needs in our city besides the overly extravagant building that's used only occasionally. Oh, I forgot about the Chamber now being housed there, so that makes it all better, right?

As for the needs of the citizens of Cleveland being met by those elected or appointed? That's for everyone to decide. That's where the "personal agenda" does not fall into the equation. If someone can honestly say that the needs of ALL are equally being addressed to the best of those elected or appointed, more importantly by those PAID to do so, then you have your answer, either way.

It should be public record if the finances are in order, expendatures, as well as the inflow of funds from the various departments. Someone should be able to go back many years thru records and see exactly how much money came into the city, and then see how much was spent and for what. City services such as EMS should have regular deposits coming into the City. Last I checked, medical costs were not cheap, so it should be a decent amount of money. Let's see how our City spends these funds.

With all that, yes, I have a personal agenda. I think we need to see what personal agenda best fits the City of Cleveland, and not the pockets of those only looking out for themselves. "

" Mr. ddsowell, I don't know who you think I am but it's obvious you got me mixed up with someone else. I live in Porter . Tx I would love for you to come to my house for a visit. I want take the crap from you like all these other people do. "

" Letters to the editor what a joke, you have a former CISD employee who no longer lives here that is good friends with Mr. Cook and his wife write a letter and it makes front page, whats the odds of that ..... "

" Vanesa: some reporting. Why is the council member's name omitted? For both the visit to you and the council agenda item placement? Where's the public's 'right to know' at your desk? I thought these were freedom of the press, and news reporting mandatory minimums....

Also, why are you calling it an editorial, yet posting it as news, rather than under the opinion tab? "

" Disturbed: didn't confuse you with anybody, to be sure. Visit? couldn't be less interested. Take my ....? YOU posted here. You're fair game. Don't like freedom of speech? MOVE! "

" Council mtg update: Had pledge and civic beauty awards for Christmas decorations, then public comments (note: public comments were NOT on the posted agenda....) All speakers spoke in support of city manager. One former council member spoke on 'personal agenda' subject- phony- nobody has more personal agendas in Cleveland than him. Out of office, yet won't leave it alone.

Next- city mgr spoke. sounded tremendously like a resignation letter- but didn't resign. Spoke of 6 years tenure here, and # 1 or #2 in tenure, in each of his 5 prior cities. Both of his sons present from A & M, in support.

Balance of meeting is PE report (public engineer), and consent agenda stuff. Then closed, executive session to consider city mgr's fate. This is typical harry williams stuff. He's done this at a meeting last fall, to get his way with the civic center/chamber sweetheart deal.

Other note: True to form, there are now three buildings on Castle Ave, with insufficient parking to hold their building's meeting capacity: senior center, civic center, city hall-for council meetings. People were parked in the driveway, the drive through, and on the street (where there ISN't any.) Great planning, huh?

Large number of city employees were present, together with the usual sponges- who fleece the city for money, and the non residents- bent on interfering, regardless. Yes, plenty of the PMMAAC scoundrels were present, as well. What a show. What a farce.

By now, it's executive session time- more details to follow. "

" Mtg conclusion: Harry Williams withdraws his motion to fire city manager. Faced with hundreds of voters in opposition, Harry backed down. He said 'he could have got on the phone and brought 250 voters in support of him' (fat chance), and will hold ''the next time'' in the civic center, to have room for all (you're only dreaming, Harry). As I said, he did this just a month ago, to get Mr Cook to go along with the civic center/ sweetheart deal. He also withdrew that motion to fire mr Cook, upon gaining the concession he wanted. Remember, this is the same person bringing the 'racetrack' deal.

Plain and simple: this is politics by EXTORTION. The 'next time' WILL bring impeachment proceedings against Harry Williams. Enough is enough, city scoundrel. You got, and deservedly so, hurricane Ike.... well..... take THAT, while HE thinks up something WORSE!

Thank you Vanesa, for having the courage to expose this scoundrel- whitewashed as it was. The difference is, I'm not afraid to print his name. He can't call an extortion meeting, to get ME fired! "

" ddsowell, thanks for the meeting updates.

As an outsider looking in (I live outside the city, but live in the area) in the law enforcement field I will throw in my 2 cents. I have a clue who the sixth candidate is, he resigned from Humble PD effective last month. He has no command experience, in a city slightly larger than Cleveland with no remaining growth potential. I have heard positives views of him, but all of them know he has no command experience and aren't sure what to think. Why would Council want someone with no experience heading the department? A pawn.

I personally have issue with someone with no command experience running the department. I don't have faith a pawn for city council will fight for his officers.

I drive 30 minutes past Cleveland for more than $9k more a year. That is absurd. I want to serve my community, and I don't mind a little sacrifice for a shorter drive... But a little not 3/4 of the pay I can get 30 minutes away, and I could pull another 4-6 thousand more with 15-20 more minutes driving.

I want a chief to come in, fight for better pay and equipment. Let the outside see Cleveland as a professional department, not some backwoods East Texas department. Dependable, updated equipment and better pay would go a long way. Add a chief from with experience in a large, professional department with command experience. Someone from Houston, Harris County, Dallas, San Antonio and such. Not Humble, Diboll, Montgomery County, or even here in Liberty county.

Screw Cleveland city council if they want a pawn. screw their personal agendas. With this, I see what some of my coworkers have said about politics in Cleveland, and why they say won't ever work here, to many agendas...

I'm not getting into the City manager issue, though I support him going through TPCA acting as a filter for the applicants, as opposed to council selecting a pawn. He has wasted money IMO (civic center), but he has also put through some good improvements for the city. I don't live in the city so I don't watch the finances there, so I not going to side with anyone.

Good Luck Cleveland... "

" FiveOh. appreciate the 9k and drive. Also appreciate the financial plight of civil servants, compared to other locales. However, the coming fed taxes and gas taxes, with oil rebounding.... may all serve to zero the $ advantage. Don't forget Cleveland. We can always use good officers, especially when the financial incentives to look elsewhere get eaten up with taxes and commuting expenses. Keep us in mind and stay safe out there. There ARE supporting citizens for all you do. Some of us run, one man, neighborhood watch/community watchdog org's. Tough jobs, plenty of flack from the small minds and/or corrupt, but much needed as well. "

" One quick question for ddsowell. How do you back up your claims of Cook's "second job"? Also are you aware that Mr Cook is no longer involved with the youth soccer league that you are referring to? "

" Liability question: just how many labor law violation lawsuits, caused by Harry Williams' actions at council meetings, are the taxpayers of Cleveland willing to be liable for? We already have one suit, filed by a former dispatcher, naming Harry Williams as well as all us taxpayers (for the city). He's continuing to violate labor laws, and employment rights, by attacking the city manager's job- just to get whatever concessions he wants. How many years do we plan to pay court judgments for his rash, official actions? It's time to consider impeachment proceedings.... Enough's enough! "

" Civilized: Indian Fan's your resident expert on that question. "

" The Soccer league is interesting, which is something I would like to know more about as well. I do know that Mr. Cook also acts as custodian at City Hall. My question is this: Does Mr. Cook receive payment, on top of his payment as City Manager, to clean City Hall?

If we choose to argue over all of these issues, then I would suggest that we explore ALL issues, and not just those that serve our own purpose. If there are any here that are truely interested in what benefits Cleveland as a whole, and not just their own personal agenda as has been repeated so much here, then our entire City Administration needs to be looked at. With this much conflict, there is a problem SOMEWHERE, and only the narrow minded, or those benefitting from the problem, would balk at an attempt to find the TRUTH. "

" Civilized, since you apparently know more about the soccer issue due to your statement that Mr. Cook is no longer involved, then maybe you can answer if he received payment for that position, on top of his City Manager pay.

Volunteers are great, as most Youth Sports Organizations are ran solely on donations and the volunteer work of many, and if Mr. Cook volunteered his time, then he should be COMMENDED for it. But if he were accepting pay, would this be an issue to anyone here? "

" As an individual who was involved in the soccer league in question in can tell you that neither Mr. Cook or any of the other members of the board that lead the league were compensated for their time. Also if I am not mistaken the city of Cleveland was only affiliated with this soccer league by its sponsorship (helping to purchase jerseys) of a few teams. "

" Mr.Cook not involved in soccer, haha, are you kidding, you pick up registration forms from the city hall drop them off at the city hall and the city pays there electric bill, now tell me how he is not involved??? "

" Civilized,
The ''city'' only helped soccer out , I know for a fact 2 other youth leagues went to Mr, Cook and was denied any help, now tell me how its ok for the ''city'' to help soccer but not those kids? "

" fact is, ANY soccer business done on city time, either by him, or the staff- directed by him; is city/taxpayer money that should be recouped. I know that he was often gone from city hall, after 3 pm. Not occassionally, but frequently. Was a lot of this during soccer practice, soccer games, soccer season? Somebody was at those soccer events, witnessed, and can write in. Somebody do the payroll math.... "

" Tons of questions come to mind, to wit: where's his time/duty logs? Did soccer take 10%, 15%, 20%? of his workweek, during soccer season?

Do the math.... what's his weekly salary, times the percentage of that week actually used for soccer, times the number of weeks involved? Where's the city operator phone message logs? They should document when he's not in the building.... and/or performing non-city duties elsewhere.

Was he coaching a team? Working the concession stand? Serving as league finance guru? Shopping at Wallyworld for concession stand supplies? sitting in a lawn chair, as a parent/fan? Who managed city hall during these absenses? City operator? Nobody? "

" No wonder the City can't select a qualified candidate for Police Chief with all this finger pointing, negativity, good-'ol-boy-ism, and defensiveness. Note to Police Chief Candidates: It don't get no better than this! How about the outright arrogance of one of the bloggers posting Mr. Williams' home address on this blog? Not cool!! I see it was deleted fairly quickly, but the damage was done. Do you not know how easy it is for anyone to to find your address, and post it on a public forum as well? Seems to me you got called out yesterday by one of the other bloggers, and you ran like everyone knew you would. Not that anyone really cares, but you may insult the wrong person the next time and you could fall down and hurt yourself. 85% of all accidents happen in the home.

You can disagree with your elected officials without being disrespectful. If you want to make changes from somewhere other than the cheap seats, you should run for office. Otherwise, why don't you see what you can do to help the City in a positive manner.

Some of you busy-bodies need to get a life/job/therapy. I haven't seen noses in other's business this much since Aunt Ider's hound died. "

" what a concept! the bloggers can post MY address, and I can't post theirs? A public official isn't 'public'? If you don't like the Constitution's 'equal enforcement clause', ...... MOVE! Pick a different country. "

" Amen, Mr. Sowell, that was very well said........ "

" I was not aware someone posted your address in the past, but if they did you probably brought it and anything bad that happened as a result of it, on yourself. That doesn't give anyone, including yourself, the right to show bad form by posting someone else's address. Public officials also have a right to privacy and that privacy should be respected. Sure, in a small town like Cleveland, almost all the locals know where the City leaders live anyway. We grew up here, and most of us know all the warts of our elected officials. All you are doing by posting his address is drawing out the fringe element that one day may get mad because their boy got a speeding ticket, and decide to have a beer or ten and drive up to the address provided by you and take a few pot shots through the window of their Council member's house. Whatever problem you had with what Harry Williams said or did during the Council meeting, or problems you have had during his term, most people understand that Harry is just being Harry. God love him, he can't help it. And while it is the right of the citizens to impeach an elected official, you need to step back from yourself for a moment and actually put a handle on what Harry did to get impeached? For being a jackass? Luckily for most of us in the "ddsowell is recognized as a doofus club", it's not your job to enforce the constitution by making us move. Why don't you move? You don't seem to like where you live. But, you probably just ended up where you are because you had no other place to go. How sad. Lonely and starved for attention. You got hit a lot as a child, didn't you? "

" Amen Mr. Sowell, that was very well said............ "

" Runky, let me see if I understand you correctly, it wasn't ok for Mr. Sowell to post someone's address however it was ok and he probably deserved his being posted and anything that happened to him due to it being posted, do you see how immature that sounds, like a kid calling another kid names, I don't think Mr. Sowell meant any harm in posting an address, and I disagree with him alot also, however, as he states, its freedom of speech........... "

" Just because someone else used bad manners by posting Dennis Sowell's address - if that really happened - doesn't make Dennis Sowell any less rude by posting Mr. Williams address. That is what is childish behavior. "

" just GOTTA have a little fun with Punky, thusly: saw your crack about getting 'hurt' "falling down in my home".... matter of fact (letting the fog clear here, hee hee) Those multiple military sharpshooter qualifications came in handy. Can't remember just how I fell down.... seems it was either from the recoil of my 12 guage, or.... the laughter, seeing all that rock salt, making an extra forty gluteous maximii on those two bubba's. Definitely recall the hurting myself: that was my sides aching, doubled over with laughter- seeing their two, accompanying, 230 pound, hot pants and tank top clad, bubba-ette girlfriends.... booking it out of here. I'll play you, Punky, anytime, with half my brain tied behind my back.

Speaking of 'well deserved'... I take the position that Ike was 'well deserved' on this local bunch of scoundrels. So.... take THAT, while HE thinks up something WORSE!

Come over ANY time..... pack a lunch. It'll be a long day..... "

" this discussion has broke down to pointing fingers about who posted an address? think about it, if i have your name and a computer i can find out everything about you in less than 5 minutes. how do you think bill collectors and repo agents work? just posting someones address doesn't make them guilty if something happens. mr. williams is a council member, do you think they live in secret in a hidden world where nothing can happen to them? their address is public info. "

" whodunnit? no brainer there. My address was posted by Think Positive, piously, stating her 'church' had 'prayed for me' that day. My name was posted dozens of times by Faith, Disturbed, Vanessa, Think Positive, Civilized, and multiple others. It was Vanessa herself, who insisted that I alone, of all the bloggers here; have to post using my own name; that anything else, would have my posts deleted. Let's see the rest of you meet THAT standard. Let's see Vanessa, herself, meet the equal enforcement clause. Put up or shut up, folks. hee hee!

Now, how about that ice storm induced power outage, I promised Think Positive for Christmas? Better late, than never, I say... Indian Fan, you were here for all of the above. Did I lie? Name one I ever posted.... "

" Oh Arctic and Antarctic climate forces..... any of you got some free time this winter? Have dozens of scoundrels here, (and tons of folks who both support and allow them;) who REFUSED to learn from Ike, Rita, Gustav, or Katrina. Sure would appreciate your providing them with more of the 'special' attention that they so richly deserve..... You KNOW the drill.... As always, harm no innocent, and no righteous. Thanks so much ......(((aah)))

Let's see you folks decode THAT! (no, those arent the actual words, phrases, nor names necessary; but if any you had a bona fide church, that actually knew ANYTHING; you wouldn't be reading in breathless suspence, now WOULD you?...) giggle, giggle, chortle, SNORT! "

" If someone were to fall down, or someone were to have pot shots taken at them due to someone's drunken rage, then I would hope that our City Leaders are allocating the appropriate funds to our EMS service, and not lining their own pockets. lol

Hey, it fits the discussion, even if it lightens the mood.

We've got those blaming the City Manager. We have those blaming the City Council. And we have those that just want everyone to get along.

Sounds to me like either: A) We can continue to look like sheep, following the crowd, because OUR choice would NEVER do anything bad, because he/she is a good Christian man/woman.
B) Prove our point, for or against, by acting as a watchdog on the actions, expenditures, and behavior of our elected and our hired officials.

It would be nice to have a message board to post on regarding the City of Cleveland, since at any time, this topic can drop out of view & either be viewed as being swept under the rug or fading from relevance. But until that day, which may never come, let me ask this to all:

If you are FOR our City Manager, do you believe in him and his ethics enough to agree that any audit of his office would be GOOD to clear his name of any wrongdoing in regards to misappropriation of funds, misallocation of city resources (soccer issue), and/or the ever-famous double-dipping (possibly paid as City Manager & also a separate income as custodian at City Hall)?

If you are FOR our City Council, would you support an investigation into allegations of abuse of authority?

Well?

Or are we just going to sit around and point fingers because my dog is bigger than your dog? "

" investigation into council? Been tried.... that councilwoman told me yesterday, that she's been on the phone for a WEEK, trying everybody in sight (from DA to state offices.) Result? Absolutely no takers, when it come to interfering with politics!

Sad to say, but, absent local voter intelligence (oxymoron?)- divine accountability via the Almighty, Ike, and siblings; STILL remains, the only viable option. (ya'll update your policies, ya hear?)

Anybody know where to get remedial ed, for a few hundred voters- present company, certainly INCLUDED? (I do...) Ike, apparently, didn't make them learn anything..... (not that "school's" OUT (from that 'source'), for the season, or anything....) Stay tuned, all..... "

" Isn't that cute. dd is playing with his imaginary friends again. Are you going to be a secret agent this week? Is that what you tell all your buddies on the stool at the VFW, that you were a sniper? I didn't know the Salvation Army had snipers. Oh I forgot, you have multiple advanced degrees from the College of Your Own Mind. I guess it's important for you to keep spouting your imaginary resume, since higher education is not apparent by your comments. The reason you have to keep talking to us "small minds" with half a brain tied behind your back is because you only have half a brain. That thing tied behind you is your butt, but I can see why that confuses you because that's where your head is most of the time. Does dd really stand for Dennis Dave, or is that your cup size? You may want to be careful about who you insult on these pages - you haven't won a fight since you hit that little fat girl in second grade, and that was really more of a draw than a win.

Sorry, weren't we discussing politics? I apologize - I get distracted by shiny objects and need to take a nap. You know how these small minds have problems focusing. "

" Indian Providence, I agree with you 100%, If Mr. Cook has nothing to hide we as a community should be granted an audit, I also feel that 2 of our coucil women seem to have a personal agenda of their own, they seem to be very one sided, are these 2 ladies looking out for whats best for ALL of our community or just certain parts of our town, do your own research and see which part of town these ''ladies'' are helping........ "

" Punky (typo intentional): 'resume'- I never posted one here.... just what have YOU been smoking, to enhance your imagining? hee hee. That 'fat girl from second grade'? There's dozens of such here (I use their scientific names: 'bubba-ettes' (sole cause of the subspecies: bubba....(giggle)) They're still winning fights in divorce courts (several are YOUR ex wives, huh)? Those of us who AREN'T small minds, NEVER consider bubba-ettes, nor any of their friends- as a spouse (note: that was "A" spouse, NOT spousES)! THAT's how to get a silver anniversary in BUBBALAND! Where's YOURS?

While I'm at it, here's the results of my scientific research: the cure to "bubba'." Let's send all of our preggies to charm schools and finishing schools. Bubba's (and hopefully, bubba-ettes) will be extinct in just one generation. How? No charm school graduate has ever had a bubba! (You see bubba's ONLY exist, when there's a bubbe-ette in the immediate family! No other way to get one, being molded after birth, not created.) hee hee (YOUR turn, PUNKY)! "

" Punky: 'VFW'? no, not my watering hole... However,... let me HIGHLY recommend ANY of the local watering holes, as a prime source for future ex spouses for YOU. With both bubba's and bubba-ettes aplenty, together with all their meddling, multi-divorced, highly 'knowledgeable', friends and relatives; you should be able to provide yourself with YEARS of divorce court bliss...! Should the new police chief, accidentally (certainly not by design or intent of a certain council person), have sobriety or 'letter of ALL the laws' inclinations; you could add YEARS of DWI/DUI festivities to your future, as well! Make your new year's resolution now, and KEEP it. hee hee (aren't you glad I'm only using half my brain on you?) "

" You crack me up. I especially liked it when you explained how you intentionally mispelled my name. No one would have guessed that in a hundred years. What a card you think you are! Getting someone to stay married to you for 25 years is no big deal. My potential ex-wife and I been married 37 years, so it can't be that hard. On the other hand, if you've been married 25 years, your powers of persuasion must be greater than they appear, or you've kept your wife locked in the basement all these years. Put your crayon away dd. You're starting to ramble, repeat, and talk back to yourself again. "

" oh, EXCUSE me, Runkster. Seems you think you're ready for the 'more than half my brain league.' Challenge accepted. Go to the opinion tab, and try me at a couple of the master's degree and doctorate degree's ONLY posts.. Lotsa luck.... waiting..... waiting..... "

" I have to back up after reading the individual post and comment on Disturbed's comments from Jan 6, 2009 at 2:22PM. you wrote-
Did someone say their was a clean up in just one section of the town? Did you ask why only in one part of town ? You said that there was more sections of your town that needed to be cleaned. My question is this, was you out there in any section helping to pick up trash? Have you been apart of The Cleveland clean up at all? I bet not. This is the kind of people who make me sick. They complain but do not participate. Cleveland needs group theraphy and fast. By the way I'm an outsider looking in. I only have family that lives in Cleveland. All I see is a big huge fighting ring with no winners. You better open all your bibles and start asking for forgiveness. The cures will not be on you but on your future leaders. Your children who are watching you squabble, fight, and pretending you care. Remember you reap what you sew. "
Yes i said there was a cleanup in just one part of town, and i asked why. I was informed that it made the city look good to help this community and then it was dropped. As for " was you out there in any section helping pick up trash?" did you get you english education from cracker jacks? No i worked that day and had not been informed of the cleanup. Before you go betting on if i have or have not been apart of the cleanup effort you need to ask questions and do research, I have live here for 4 years and yes i have helped cleanup alot, i also protect lives and property in this town, i volunteer lots of my time and so does my child as i am teaching him to be a help to others. You want to say my kind of people make you sick, just the opposite is true, your kind of outsider looking in armchair quarterbacking the situation is the type of people who make others sick. Last but not least, open my bible and start asking for forgiveness.........Up yours idiot, don't even begin to push your religion on me. by the way i reap what i SOW....learn farming when you go back to english, seeds don't get sewn thread does. "

" Machoman, I am having a hard time understanding what we need to ask forgiveness for. For what do I need forgiveness?

IndianFan, is the reason that you are calling for the termination of Mr. Cook solely based on the fact that your favorite youth sports league was not allowed to use the empty fields that the Community Center was built on?

and Finally ddsowell, you talk about finding out how much of Mr. Cooks time is spent on this soccer league, I wonder if you would like to step away from the keyboard and go find out for yourself. I imagine that you would find little if any evidence of Mr. Cook squandering the cities time. But i bet you could drive by late in the afternoon and notice that the only light in the City Hall that is on is the one that is in the City Manager's office. I challenge you to do this i think you would be surprised, you could even try the weekends, look for his car in the parking lot you would be surprised. "

" Civilized, maybe you need to do a little research first, No, my favorite sports league did not ask to use the fields that the civic center is on, IF you new anything about our youth league's you would know Soccer used them. We [as in a handful of parents] spent countless hours and money building our fields, concession stand, buying score boards, and goal post, All WITHOUT the help of Phillip Cook or the city, to this day, we give up hours of our time away from our family, and money from our own bank account so these kids have a place to play from Aug-Nov, cheap, no sir it is not, we have league insurance which covers any person getting hurt that cost's us $920.00, we pay atleast $400.00 a weekend to referee's , we have an electric bill of atleast $200.00 a month, and also take into consideration we have countless numbers of kids who play but can't afford it, do we turn those kids away, no, we actually go out and find them equipment rather if it is donated or if we have to buy new all the equipment each child needs, and pay out of pocket for alot of there uniforms, do you realize how hard it is to get a sponsor year after year from this town, and dont get me wrong, we do have a few that opens there hearts and gives us a sponsor, but does this cover everything or even half, no, by the time we give each child a trophy and each coach a plaque, its usually coming from my bank account........So yes sir, it offends me a great deal to see our city give to certain kids and not others, I'm sorry if you have a problem with that, but until you give what I give year after year, you have no idea what your talking about....

P.S.- Little league baseball is fixing to start up also, instead of us having lights on our fields like EVERY other surrounding town does, our kids have to play in the heat of the day, would you like to start a committee trying to find these 300 plus kids lights for there fields or are they not important enough???? "

" Civilized- i'm as confused as you. Disturbed is the one who said we need to open our bibles and ask for forgiveness i was only responding and quoting what they said. i have no ide what we need to be forgiven for? "

" ddsowell wrote on Jan 8, 2009 3:59 PM:
" oh, EXCUSE me, Runkster. Seems you think you're ready for the 'more than half my brain league.' Challenge accepted. Go to the opinion tab, and try me at a couple of the master's degree and doctorate degree's ONLY posts.. Lotsa luck.... waiting..... waiting..... "

There you go again with those imaginary degrees. Is it wonderful to be that self important? How sad for you, and everyone around you. You just go wait by one of those imaginary masters and doctorate ONLY posts you speak of, and someone will be by to help you later. "

" Thanks for clearing that up for me Machoman. I guess we are both confused.

I think that it is great that you (indian fan) put so much effort into this sports league. From what you say you are doing a great job helping the youth of the Cleveland area to have fun playing sports. Have you gone to seek assistance for your league? And yes i know that the city allowed the soccer games to be played on the civic center land. To clarify there was no concession stand built for the soccer league if that's what you are implying. I have played plenty of sports games in the heat of the day, i don't think playing a sports game in the sun has every hurt anyone. Im sure a majority of my sports games other than basketball took place during the heat of the day. How many times have you gone to Mr. Cook and asked him what the city could do to help out? Simply put, is it the fact that he in the past helped the soccer league, or that your league has not benefited that bothers you so much? "

" Oh Arctic and Antarctic climate forces.... please add some 'extra' love to Runkster's locale. He can't seem to be redeemed.... (((aah))) "

" Runkster- didn't THINK you could handle the more intelligent conversations. Better stay over here, with the small minds, and no rules.... "

" vote Harry out? You'll get your chance. Reportedly, he's up for being 'returned to the private sector', at the next election. All you need is two things: 1. a viable candidate/opponent 2. 600 votes to max the capabilities of that corrupt church that supports their scoundrels. Indian Fan, we've discussed this BEFORE..... Rotsa Ruck!

[The righteous can only do so much, such as: wrecking his investments on Wall Street, sending 'natural' (HA!) disasters to wreck his physical property, and illnesses to wreck physical bodies (not that this is anywhere CLOSE to a comprehensive list of remedies available....) even Think Positive, Disturbed, Faith, and Ruckster might be a believer, after the twelve dozenth 'natural' disaster strikes them... (some heads are harder than others) hee hee! The meterology profession is certainly baffled (wonder of wonders: guess which two 'natural' disasters came in first and second- on 2008's weather channel list- the midplains floods of June-- and Ike of September- gotta LUV them pundits! They all KNOW so much) , as well as the military climatology bunch; who can't talk AT ALL, lest they reveal what classified equipment/capabilities (e.g. HARP) THEY have (that's equally perplexed)... giggle!] "

" Civilized,
What bothers be about Phillip Cook is the fact that he has chosen certain kids over others, yes I know for a fact baseball and football has met with Mr.Cook, only to walk out feeling like it was a waste of there time, what gives him the right to give to soccer but no other sport? No , I don't believe I've ever stated anything about soccer building a concession stand, I said we went out and purchsed one for our league, bottom line, I wish nothing bad on soccer, I truely hope one day our town can build a sports complex and combine all these youth leagues together and WE ALL help one another, but until that happens, I think the city should atleast try and help ALL of our children.... "

" Civilized, you talk about Mr. Cook spending that extra time at City Hall, when others have all gone home for the day. Actually, you said it in regards to his car in the parking lot, and the light in his office on. But, could this be because he is doing his job as Custodian for City Hall? Is he being paid by the taxpayers separately for this job as well?

Sure, I believe that City Hall needs a janitor. Public buildings need cleaning, just as private businesses. I would just be curious as to if he is being paid separately for these duties, and what his pay is for this duty, versus what anyone else would be paid.

Someone stated that Mr. Cook had his pay based on comparisons of cities of similar size. He also did this for the salaries of everyone else that works for the city. Did he use the same city for everyone else as he did for HIS salary? To base his salary based on Humble, while basing other city employees pay on Diboll is not only self-serving, but quite unethical.

And as far as soccer goes, the city needs to support ALL youth programs, as long as they've shown responsibility with the funding they have. Personal preference should have no bearing. Many communities have a single Youth Sports Association that organizes all sports. However, each individual sport usually ends up attempting to get sponsors for the various teams, in order to provide for the program. In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, if the City chooses to be involved in youth sports, which they should, then they need to support ALL programs. If budgeting is a problem, then perhaps sponsor one team in each sport, or perhaps provide a donation for the association as a whole. Assist with providing refreshments during the end of season tournaments. After all, a few coolers of Gatorade aren't going to break the city. Support the kids, because if not, then when these programs disappear, these same kids could very well be doing other things less productive to keep themselves occupied. "

" IndianProvidence do you have proof mr. cook based everyones pay on a city of the same size? Because my position in friendswood starts out $5 higher than i make for CoC and Diboll is $3 higher. In fact I have found out i can drive 25 minutes for $4.15 per hour more to do the same job. "

" Machoman, that was what I was told in regards to at least one City Department by some friends that work there. Apparently, I cannot find it in this set of comments, but elsewhere recently it was stated that Mr. Cook had his salary, and increases, based on a city of the same size as Cleveland. The big difference that I see is that my friends in the one department were given raises based on a city of the same size as Cleveland, but it was a city that was not within 40-50 miles of a metropolitian area. I believe it was a city like Diboll, with no metropolitian areas within 100 miles. Like you, these people can drive less than 20 miles, and make around $3-5/hr more.

The poster in the other set of comments, and maybe someone else can remember where this was discussed, stated that Mr. Cook's salary was based on a city of similar size to Cleveland, but if I remember right, it was an upscale suburb of a metropolitian area.

My thoughts are simple; what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If he wants CoC employees to be comparable to Diboll, Mexia, Henderson, or Crawford, then he should accept the same comparison. "

" But to answer your question, the only proof I have is that I was verbally told this directly by City Hall, after checking following statements made by friends who work for CoC. "

" IndianProvidence,
It was Mr. Sowell whom spoke of Mr.Cooks salary, I believe its on Jan.6 @ 4:30 says his is in comparison to Friendswood........ "

" IndianProvidence thanks for clearing that up. No wonder it was city hall who said they got increases, all of them have nice cars and homes, i don't think any of them are struggling to feed a family of 5 and pay the bills on $400.00 every two weeks like me. I totally agree with you on what's good for the goose is good for the gander. "

" I just wonder if mr. cooks salary is frozen? if we were to replace him would the next one be making the same money and we would still be mad? I personally don't pay alot of attention to what all mr. cook does unless it includes me, and i will tell you he does do somethings without his employees knowing it. I'll give an example which will probably make my department figure out just who machoman is, when i was given an offer of employment it was on paper, typed print only, i agreed and signed it. AFTER I signed it and it went to the city managers desk was when mr. cook decided to write in a restriction on the number of hours i could get. so if one were to look at it today you will see my signature on it as if i agreed to everything including his restriction. I received a copy of the offer, but it was the copy without his handwritten note, i only found out about this because someone stumbled upon it and asked me if i agreed to it. so, on a personal level i'd throw him out faster than yesterdays trash but i also would want whats good for all employees not just me. "

" machoman: salary frozen? Nope. FYI 'federal wage and price freezes' were in the 70's (Nixon administration, I believe). FYI his salary increase is determined annually, as is all city employees, at the annual budget process- and its departmental budget submittal processeses. However, he can, by virtue of his office/position; limit the hours scheduled per week, of any employee; to meet budget constraints. "